[ Ron Healey wrote in 190416 MMDigest: ]

> How much is a replacement comb with the flat teeth for a late 1920s
> or early '30s Thorens AD30? What is your labor charge for doing the
> replacement?

Dear Mr. Healey,  There are actually 2 different combs and 2 variations
of the same comb with a different base plate.  As I'm not aware of which
comb you may need, below please find below the general information
(probably too much information!) that I provide to clients in similar
circumstances.  After reading through it, please let me know how I may
be of further assistance to you.

 - - -

There are three (3) different Thorens 30 tooth combs and we'd need to
identify which one you need.

Actually, two combs are made almost exactly the same -- with teeth
that come to a tapered point at the tip -- but they are attached to two
different metal bases that hold the combs at a different angle because
the star wheels that pluck the notes are at a different height from the
base of the musical mechanism platform.

One of those tapered tip combs is for the relatively newer movements
made after 1940.  They are already installed on a rectangular base
and go with the mechanisms with the black base plate.  Cost is $150.00
each.

The second type of tapered tip comb is mounted on a lower base plate
and fits on the pre-1939 movements that have a two-part flat, gold
painted base plate with what I call an open clockwork movement, where
the flywheel is long flat brass fan located at the back left side of
the box and the mainspring is visible at the front left side of the box.

That comb is $165.00.  For it to work, we must have you send us your
old comb and its base so that we can un-solder it from its base and
then solder the new comb back onto that old base.  And then we return
it to you to install yourself; or you can send us your mechanism and we
will install it for you for a minimum labor fee of $90 plus the $150.00
cost of the comb plus the return shipping, handling and insurance.

The third type of comb is for the most ancient (the oldest mechanisms)
and it has teeth that are flat all the way across the tips of the comb.
(There is no difference in the width of the teeth.  They are all exactly
the same width but the teeth on the right side of the comb are a little
shorter in length.

That comb is for the models that have a solid rectangular cast iron, or
brass, base plate and again the open clock work mechanism.  The cost of
that comb is $175.00  (It is very hard to find and it was very expensive
for us to have them made last year by Reuge in Switzerland.)

Please see all the information below and read it carefully, because
broken teeth on a musical comb can be just that -- broken teeth --
or they can be an indication that other things have broken on the
mechanism, and those other problems will need to be fixed before the
new comb is installed.  If they are not fixed first, the brand new comb
will likely be broken right away, and you will have spent $150.00 or
$175.00 for nothing.

So, the current cost for a the "modern" replacement comb is $150.00.
Detailed "Do It Yourself" installation instructions for installing the
comb are $10.00 (optional).  Our minimum shipping and handling fee is
$7.95 for a total cost of $157.95 or $167.95 with the instruction
sheets.


Three notes of caution:

1. The replacement comb for the Thorens AD30 4-1/2" disc player is
somewhat different, depending on the age of the mechanism.  The base to
which the comb is soldered is different in the pre-1940 models vs. the
newer models.  The teeth on the oldest models are flat cut rather than
tapered to a point.

Therefore, to install a new comb onto an older (usually open clockwork
mechanism) we'll need to determine the specific comb needed.  (Please
see http://www.thorensad30.com/  for more details and photos as well as
some good general information about these machines and the over 1,600
different tunes that have been made for them.)

2. A comb with broken teeth, can be just that; or if the teeth are
broken in the middle of the comb it can also be indicative of a problem
with the star wheel assembly that plucks the notes on the musical comb.
Check to see if the block holding the star wheels, (that pluck the
notes on the comb), appears to be warped, bowed  or cracking.  Also,
look carefully at the alignment of the individual star wheels and the
individual teeth remaining on the comb; they should line up squarely
center to center star wheel to comb tooth.

Alignment of some teeth and misalignment of others is indicative that
the star wheel assembly should be replaced, and (depending on the age
of the unit), the swing arm & shouldered set screw may also need to be
replaced.  (The older, solid one-piece swing arm and shouldered set
screw are not compatible with the current replacement "most modern"
star wheel assembly).

3. Because of their age and construction design, the AD30 mechanisms
can, and often do, have multiple problems related to their age,
oxidation, lubrication, changing atmospheric conditions (temperature
and humidity) and usage, that are not always readily apparent.  However,
on close inspection it may well display symptoms of pending or existing
problems.


In basic order of their frequency of occurrence, those problems often
include, but are not limited to, the following:

* The nylon release gear, a.k.a. pinion/pignon gear or worm gear
($35.00), may be cracked or broken.  It connects the main spring driven
motor drive to the speed regulator.  If it is cracked you will hear a
distinctive, repetitive "tick tick tick" sound when the motor is turned
on (and most distinctly without a disc in place).

If the release gear is badly cracked, the motor may not run.  If it
has broken, and has fallen off its axle, the main spring will wind, but
will "release" all of its pent-up energy immediately when the winder is
released.  An optional "Do It Yourself" instruction sheet for installing
the replacement gear, without having to fully disassemble the mechanism,
is also available for $5.00.

* Combs with broken teeth cost $150.00, $165.00 or $175.00 depending on
the age and configuration.  Several broken teeth in the middle of the
comb is often indicative of a warped or defective star wheel assembly.

* Warped or cracked/cracking star wheel assembly is $120.00.  The cast
metal block, of pot metal or aluminum, that houses the star wheels may
become cracked and brittle and the gantry swing arm may snap off.
And/or the star wheel assembly block may warp, usually inward toward
the comb, thus advancing the star wheels which, when they are too close
to the teeth, lift the teeth too far upward causing the central comb
teeth to break.

Jammed or stuck star wheels may cause records not to play or to
repeatedly "pop" and "click" as they revolve beyond the first
revolution.  (If the star wheels have not been aligned prior to
insertion of a disc, popping and clicking during the first revolution
may be normal as the star wheels realign themselves.)  Note: if
replacing the star wheel assembly is required, it is often necessary
to replace the swing arm ($27.50) and/or the damper rail ($45.00).

* The damper rail ($75.00), may have warped, cracked, be out of
alignment or individual dampeners may be bent.  The damper rail is
the thin metal bar with thin flat finger like projections (dampeners)
sticking up between the tips of the comb teeth and the star wheels,
and is located just below the tips of the comb.  Dampeners are
designed to stop the teeth from vibrating before they are plucked
again.  If damaged or inoperative, it will make the star wheels
difficult or impossible to turn or may make the music sound very
twangy and vibrational.

* Broken main spring ($65.00).  The motor will not run but the winding
key will turn and turn and turn without any resistance or tension being
built up).  And finally,

* The speed regulator (governor) assembly ($55.00) may not be working
correctly.  Discs should take 19 to 21 seconds to make 1 complete
revolution.  More than 21 seconds, the musical tempo will be too slow;
less than 19 seconds and the tempo will be too fast.  If dirty, or out
of alignment, the speed may be severely reduced or there may be a high
speed whirring noise or a very fast ticking sound being made by the
governor and or the adjacent stop mechanism.


If your intent is to Do It Yourself, please call me, with the
mechanism and a disc at hand; I'd prefer to talk you through some
simple diagnostics to determine the age of your mechanism, and if your
machine may have some other problem(s) beyond the damaged comb.  That
way, I can supply you with all the parts you may need at one time
instead of you're ordering them piece meal and having to pay multiple
shipping and handling charges on each shipment.

There are two basic options: DYI = Doing It Yourself

1. You can purchase the comb and instructions (optional).   They are
fairly simple to install using very simple tools.  (However, please see
caution notes below regarding broken combs et al, before ordering.)

2. You may send us your box/mechanism, and at least 1 disc.  We really
don't need the cabinet but it sometimes makes it easier to package
the mechanism and disc together by leaving them in the cabinet (box).
One of your own discs is requested because over the years minor changes
were made in these players & not all discs will play on every machine
unless they also are modified.

If the only problem is the broken comb, the cost for us to make the
installation will be: $150.00 for the modern comb and $90.00 for labor.
(We have a 1 hour minimum fee of $90.00) = Sub Total = $240.00 plus
about $15.00 to $35.00 for the handling, repackaging, return shipping
and insurance costs domestically.  The grand total guesstimate is
from $255.00 to $290.00.  Note: Shipping and handling fees may be
higher if the cabinet is large or heavy).

If you are interested in adding to your collection of discs, we stock
over 300 different tune selections.  Discs range in price from $10.00
to $50.00 each, based on their condition and rarity.

At the bottom of this email please find our shipping and contact
information.

Please note that, because of the anonymity of the internet,  I have
no idea where you are located.  Therefore, please know that the retail
prices quoted below are in US dollars and shipping costs are for
shipments within the 50 United States.  We will ship internationally,
but the shipping and handling fees are a bit higher.  Also, California
residents are subject to a 9% sales tax on parts.  (Labor is not taxable.)

Thank you again for your interest in our parts and services.

Most sincerely,

Don Caine - Proprietor, The Music Box Repair Center Unlimited
Lomita, California
tel.: 1-310-534-1557
http://www.musicboxrepaircenter.com/