Hello again Tim; you wrote:

> I hope there isn't too much that has already been covered as
> I'm going to send this to you and the list.
>
> You mentioned the eBay photos.  Yes, they don't show the teeth very
> well.  There were three teeth that have the tips missing, which you
> couldn't see in the photos.  I doubt they could have been broken
> from the shipping damage but I suppose it's possible.
>
> I'm getting news that the tune sheet claims Mandoline but that it
> probably isn't.  I'm a little confused about what is legitimate and
> what isn't.  I'm pretty sure it's not the original box because there
> are extra screw holes under the movement.  Now the tune sheet does
> appear to be original (not reproduction) and there is a 5 digit
> number just to the right of the "Mandoline" title.  There is also
> the exact same 5 digit number stamped into the brass arm that holds
> the cylinder to the base.
>
> I don't really know the tunes to know if they are correct or not.
> Another thing that adds to this confusion is that the tune sheet
> (although extensively taped around the edges) does still seem to be
> attached by one of the original tacks.
>
> If it _is_ the correct tune sheet for this box, why does it appear
> to have the wrong movement.  Still, if it is the wrong movement,
> why do the numbers stamped in the metal match the tune card?

I just saw tonight's MMD and had a look at your photos, which are more
enlightening than those on eBay.  The case damage isn't nearly as
severe as I had at first imagined and it can probably be corrected by
a careful hobbyist familiar with fine woodwork and French polishing.
It appears that it has had some rough work done on it already with the
uneven putty work under the glass lid.  I had already written what
follows and most of it still stands, although the box may be somewhat
more "garden variety" than I had first assumed.

Yesterday Eliyahu Shahar made a number of important comments and
suggestions regarding your box but, as I said and you agree, the eBay
photos ain't great.

The fact that the number stamped into what I assume is the cylinder
bridge (bearing) agrees with the tune sheet is indeed interesting as it
would seem unlikely that someone would go to this degree of trouble to
"fake it" so to speak.  It is, nevertheless an unusual place for such a
number.  With a cast iron bedplate (base) the number is often absent
or, with a brass bedplate (unlikely with a box the age of yours), is
often stamped into the base in the "northwest" corner.

I only partially agree with Eliyahu that the box isn't a mandoline
because I thought I saw a mandoline pattern on the cylinder.  Again,
the photo is lacking a lot of information.  (and unfortunately your new
photo doesn't show the pin pattern at all.)  I hope I'm not confusing
you by stating that you may very well have a _part_ mandoline box where
only a few notes are sustained through rapid repetition.

You mention that there are screw holes in the base.  I tried hard to
see if there were a pair of holes on the front as well but couldn't be
sure.  If there are no holes (perhaps evidence of holes that were
filled) in the front and back of the case and the holes in the bottom
(usually three) line up with the movement then they probably belong
together.  At this point I have to assume that there are no mounting
holes through the front and back of the bedplate and there are mounting
holes on the bottom of the movement.  This also will likely date the
box as being somewhat later than I first thought.

(After seeing the photos I'm pretty sure the original mounting is
through the base and the box is indeed later.)

Also check the tack hole locations on the lid to see if they match the
holes in the tune sheet.  You could check the number of tunes against
the points on the change snail but I don't think this is wise at this
point due to the potential for damage.

Frankly, Tim, I really suggest that you contact MBSI for a link to
a local collector before you go any further.  Cylinder musical boxes
appear to be very simple in function, and indeed they are.

Unfortunately they are _very_ unforgiving of error on the part of the
repairman and have extremely fine tolerances.  In my early years of
collecting I had a potentially valuable box virtually ruined by a clock
repairman of good repute who didn't have a clue but didn't have the
courtesy to advise me of that point.  That's how deceptively simple
they are.

Please, for the sake of your musical box, find a _cylinder_ box
collector and talk to him in person.  Contrary to some postings I have
seen recently, cylinder boxes are _not_ "Tinkle Boxes" but delicate and
very beautiful heritage items playing tunes exactly as they were heard
150 some-odd years ago.  There is no resemblance to anything from
Fisher Price.

You are into the first phase of cylinder box collecting.  Wonder
followed by disillusionment and frustration.  Have courage, Camille,
things should get better soon.

Lots of luck!

Jim Heyworth,
Sechelt, B.C., Canada