[ John Tuttle wrote to Mark Kinsler and Jim Heyworth:

>  ... As stated in various postings, my customers are more typically
> young families who have inherited their player from an older family
> member.  They typically have, or are going to have, children.
> Having opened many a valve chest and exhauster assemblies, I know
> for a fact that various contaminates are being blown into the air
> every time the unit is used.
>
> Now I can't speak for anyone else, but I'm here to tell you that I
> would be devastated at the news that one of my customers' children
> had developed a neurological disorder, and that after exhaustive
> searching, it was discovered that the old player piano was the
> primary culprit.  (Picture little Johnny, on his knees, pedaling
> the player piano by hand. ... Been there, done that.)
>
> Having seen the pictures (attached) of the deteriorated tubing
> recently mentioned in the MMD, having removed lead tubing
> at the request of more than a couple customers, and recalling
> that metallic taste while working on a job this year, I thought
> it was about time to find out for certain whether or not there
> was a genuine need to be concerned.
>
> Jim Heyworth certainly made it sound like I should be more than
> mildly careful when I replace deteriorated tracker bar tubing
> the next time... and I will.  But again, I still have concerns.
> Perhaps after viewing the attached pictures, someone will tell
> me:
>
> A) Would operating a player in this condition be a health hazard
> to small children?
>
> B) Should an adult always exercise extreme caution when handling
> such tubing, i.e., masks, gloves, etc? And, how far do you go?
>
> C) Should I contact town or county officials with regards to
> disposing of the old tubing?
>
> I'm also concerned because I'm selling tubing to novices.  So I
> wonder about possible liability.  Should I sell the tubing with
> a warning notice?
>
> Musically,
>
> John A. Tuttle

 [ Roger Wiegand wrote about the photos:

> Do you know that the white stuff is a lead oxide?  I might have
> guessed that it was lead carbonate (PbCO3, AKA "white lead" of paint
> pigment fame) from reaction of the lead with CO2 in the air.  Most
> of the oxides are yellow or red in color.  Most of them also rate
> a "Poisonous!" in the Merck index, with LD50s in the 100s mg/kg
> range, though the neurotoxicity sets in at doses many logs lower
> than the lethal dose.

Hi All,  John and Roger have some serious and valid concerns.

It is disconcerting to think that the very instruments we are trying
to preserve could, in their unrestored state, be damaging our children.
At the same time I don't think we should panic and send them all to a
land fill on Mars (the pianos, not the kids).

I have no real basis for this and would entertain comments, but I think
that if the lead tubing is _undisturbed_ the chances of a kid getting a
face full of a lead compound, whatever it is, are small.  It doesn't take
too many leaky tubes before nobody wants to play the damned thing
anyway.

Once a restoration begins and things start getting shaken up and bent
around, however, such a piano should certainly be off limits to
children until it is completely cleaned up and adults should be aware
of and address the dangers.  Lead tubing and parts that could contain
the dust, such as exhausters and reservoirs should be handled carefully
and be completely cleaned out during their rebuild.  But shouldn't that
happen anyway if you're doing the job properly?

I think being careful regarding dust control, washing hands, etc.,
as I mentioned earlier, should be adequate for the occasional rebuild
and that kids should be kept out of the shop when lead in any form is
around.

Of course it makes sense to be careful and since lead is a cumulative
poison, the more often you encounter it the more careful you should be.
The more frequently you need to handle lead then the more important it
is that you obtain proper protective equipment and exercise increasing
caution.  If you have a number of pianos that need lead tubing
replaced, try not to do them all at once and give your body time to get
rid of some of what you may have absorbed even while being careful.

It is unlikely that, unless one is completely reckless, that redoing
a piano or two is going to kill an adult or to leave him permanently
damaged.  (Although if he's really careless he might have been damaged
to begin with.) In my own experience I had to retube an Ampico drawer
that had had lead tubing and in the process I got a good taste of the
white powder and did blow some around.  I'm still here but not sure if
I can vouch for my intact mental capacity.

John asked,

> Should I contact town or county officials with regards to
> disposing of the old tubing?

Perhaps contact the local recycling depot with a vague request to see
what they suggest.  Civil servants can panic easily and unnecessarily
and who knows what bureaucratic mess you could trigger.  You don't want
them to quarantine your shop do you ?

> I'm also concerned because I'm selling tubing to novices.  So
> I wonder about possible liability. Should I sell the tubing with
> a warning notice?

I think a warning notice would be very appropriate but I'd hate to
think that the motivation would be to avoid legal liability, although
I fully understand.  Considering how litigious some people can be, you
might contact your lawyer on the subject before you make one up,
however.

All for now, look forward to comments.

Jim Heyworth,
Sechelt, B.C., Canada

P.S. A note to those unfamiliar with the term in Roger's letter:

LD50 means that half of animals (extrapolated to people) that take
the stated amount into their bodies will die.  That is, it is a
_Lethal_Dose_ for _50%_ of the population.  If the LD50 is 100 mg/Kg,
half of people weighing, say, 70 Kg (154 lb.) will die if they take
in 100 mg/Kg x 70 Kg = 7,000 mg or 7 grams of the substance.  That's
about 1/4 of an ounce.

 [ I'll place this correspondence and the photos at the MMD Tech
 [ site,  http://mmd.foxtail.com/Tech/
 [
 [ John Tuttle is preparing a new page at his web site to collect
 [ information about this topic.  The current title is "Lead Poisoning!
 [ -- From A Player Piano? (Or: And here we thought 'Heavy Metal' was
 [ 'Totally Cool'!)"  See http://www.player-care.com/lead_tubing.html
 [ Since this URL may be temporary, one should also check John's home
 [ page at http://www.player-care.com/  -- Robbie