[ This letter isn't concerned with mechanical music, but the
 [ Knabe piano often was equipped with a player, so I forwarded
 [ Dale's request to MMDer Jon Page for assistance.  The replies
 [ have useful new information about big Knabe pianos.  -- Robbie

I have been looking at a used Knabe concert grand, serial number 10783,
that I'm considering purchasing.  The store owner, who has been in
business a long time , tells me the age of the piano is about 90 years.
I looked up the serial number in the Pierce Piano Atlas  and it
indicates that serial number falls between 1865 and 1870, indicating
the piano might be about 130 years old.

I discussed this with the store owner have no doubt he is sincere and
believes the piano is only 90 or so years old, but has no other basis
or reference for determining the age. I am aware age is not necessarily
a major factor in purchasing a piano,  but I'd like to get a better
idea of just how old it is.

I noted in Art Reblitz's book (Piano Servicing, Tuning and Rebuilding,
2nd edition), among a lot of other good stuff, a comment that the Atlas
"for some listings are inaccurate or incomplete, such as those for
_Knabe_ concert grands."  I was wondering if anyone in the MMD
readership could provide any information on how I might be able to
determine the age more accurately, or where I might find more info on
the construction and design features of this Knabe.

Thanks for your help.

Dale C. Houser

 [ Jon Page responded: ]

My Atlas concurs with Dale's for the approximate date of manufacture.
For it to be 90 years old, the serial number would have to be in the
68xxx range.  The concert grands could have had a different number
series of which I am not aware.

'Used' salesman have a tendency to 'believe what they want to believe',
so even though he appears sincere, he may not _want_ to know its true
age.  I kind of don't believe half of what salesmen say, and disregard
the rest.

The best way to determine its age and/or suitability is to look at the
action.  If it is of the rocker arm & sticker type, it is more than 90
years old and will require special attention in regulating which few
technicians care to deal with.

Price is another factor: this piano cannot command a high price, being
a bit of a white elephant.

Knabes were good pianos and they surely don't built 'em like that
anymore.  Their main failure was usually in splitting bridge caps.
That's the first thing which comes to mind when thinking about an older
Knabe.

Another factor which you should think about is salability -- When you
don't want the piano anymore, how easy will it be to sell it?  Darn
difficult.

I'll post the make, size and serial no. on the p-tech list and see what
surfaces.  But to protect yourself, have an independent technician
inspect and advise.

Regards,

Jon Page

 [ This response was posted to the piano-tech mail-list; Jon noted
 [ that "you can't get better info than this from Jack Wyatt."

At least some Knabe concert grands did indeed have different serial
numbers.  The information I have gathered over the years has the number
10135 built about 1912.  And number 10927 built about 1929.  At this
time I have no other numbers.  Also, during this time Knabe had some
of their 9-footers built by "A B Chase" in Norwalk Ohio.

Also, some (maybe all) Chickering '9's had different numbers; serial
number 15327 was built about 1925.

Even though American Piano Co. bought both Knabe and Chickering in
1909, production was not moved to East Rochester NY until 1929.  This
twenty-year time span seems to fit with the information above.

Regards to All,

Jack Wyatt