To answer John Farrell's complaint that Joplin did not invent ragtime
... Johnson did not invent Stride ... Jelly Roll did not invent Jazz,
etc., etc.

I seldom use my college education except to converse intelligently
to the musician and owner of the instrument(s) I repair.  However,
I do hold a degree in Music History and Literature, and Pipe organ.
My main research tomes were done on Joplin and ragtime and also on the
Reproducing piano.  To say that I have extensively researched those
subjects would not be too strong.

Ragtime is only ragtime if it follows the form attributed to Joplin
who later took his own liberties with it.  There were a distinct few
composers of the form including Joplin, Scott, and Lamb.

I have been unable to find any indication that ragtime originated from
anyone other than Joplin.  Granted he did design the form from the
popular march form of the day, as well as several other minstrel and
"coon" song forms, but I have not been able to find anyone to dispute
the claim of his design of the form itself.  I would be interested if
you have some unknown research that would enlighten me.

Anyway I pose to you that such things are a little like the player
piano itself.  Who invented the player piano?  The answer is: no one.
No one person did -- it evolved from many minds.

I have not heard anyone attribute stride to any but Johnson, and Jelly
Roll claimed the invention of Jazz as his own personal bragging rights.
I made such unfootnoted comments with tongue firmly in cheek, anyway.

D. L. Bullock Piano World St. Louis


 [ D. L. Bullock claimed in MMD 980722:
 [
 [> The largest contribution to player piano and its music was made
 [> by African Americans including one black man who is said to have
 [> invented the device.  Scott Joplin invented the ragtime form.
 [> Jelly Roll Morton claimed to have invented jazz.  James P. Johnson
 [> invented stride piano and wrote Charleston, Running Wild, Old
 [> Fashioned Love.
 [
 [ John Farrell disputes your claim, saying that he was "pretty
 [ confident that was not the case".
 [
 [ In MMD 980724 David Fowler wrote, "And in putting pen to paper
 [ he [Joplin] certainly made common the "ragtime form" (that is,
 [ AABBACCDD or AABBCCDD)."
 [
 [ Ed Berlin stated in MMD 980725, "No one person can legitimately
 [ claim the 'invention of ragtime,'" and he cited examples to
 [ support his statement.
 [
 [ D. L., you say, above, "Ragtime is only ragtime if it follows the
 [ form attributed to Joplin who later took his own liberties with it."
 [
 [ That's news to me!  Is this the definition of the word "ragtime",
 [ then and now, that you determined from your research?
 [
 [ Could you please cite the evidence you found that Scott Joplin
 [ invented the ragtime form, and that James P. Johnson invented stride
 [ piano style?  Why do you claim that these forms didn't exist earlier,
 [ among many performers and composers?
 [
 [ These questions are worth discussing within MMD because early
 [ recordings of both piano styles exist on piano rolls.  (At least,
 [ they _sound_ like ragtime and stride.)
 [
 [ Since early jazz is primarily an ensemble form, and difficult to
 [ notate or present on music rolls, we'll leave the discussion about
 [ Jelly Roll Morton's claimed invention to the phono record
 [ discussion groups !  (Or did Jelly compose ragtime tunes? ... )
 [
 [ -- Robbie